Archive / Ramblings / GGST Season 4 Discussion (12/22/2024)

GGST Season 4 Discussion
System
Music
6P
Defense / Damage
Characters
Sol Badguy
Ky Kiske
May
Axl Low
Chipp Zanuff
Potemkin
Faust
Millia Rage
Zato=1
Ramlethal Valentine
Leo Whitefang
Nagoriyuki
Giovanna
Anji Mito
I-No
Goldlewis Dickinson
Jack-O'
Happy Chaos
Baiken
Testament
Bridget
Sin Kiske
Bedman?
Asuka R#
Johnny
Elphelt Valentine
A.B.A
Slayer
Dizzy
Tier List
Team of Three
Overall



- GGST Season 4 Discussion -
<- Back
So Season 4 came out about two months ago now, and I wanted to give my opinions on each character, what changed, and how good I think they are. And also just the patch overall and my hopes for the future.
- System -
Music
So, obviously we got Dizzy's new and old themes, but there were also two surprise new themes: Get Over Nightmares and Shelter from the Rain.

Get Over Nightmares is Strive's first VS theme, and oddly is for Ky vs. Sin rather than Ky vs. Sol. But it is really good! The best song to come out of this update. I am really happy that they decided to do this and I hope they do more VS themes in the future.

Shelter from the Rain was a complete surprise. But it is good! A massive improvement from the other slow songs Strive did. It isn't as good as Xrd's peak (Freesia) but is much better than Talk About You or The Name of Heaven will ever be.
6P
This isn't a massive change but I think most people forgot about it after all the... other changes. But this was a really good change! 6Ps were just a bit too good. Not overwhelmingly so, but still just a bit too much. Now they are a tiny bit worse across the board!
Defense / Damage
Right off the bat, the defense changes are EXCELLENT. This is exactly what everyone has been asking for, and they delivered. More defense! Yay! More interactions! Right...?

I can see the intention behind the damage changes. Making only some moves do higher damage theoretically makes high damage rarer and therefore increases interaction. Its the difference between a 60% damage combo off any hit and a 60% combo off only VERY specific hits. Unfortunately it just didn't work out like that. Overall damage is up which is obviously bad. It wasn't intentional but it certainly made the update worse. I hope 1.42 fixes this. They said it would, but to what degree?

Also, here is a chart for what changed defense-wise:
Character
Defense
Multiplier
Guts
Effective Health
Asuka R# (Mana)
0.7500
0
676
Bedman? (call 13c)
0.8648
0
586
Potemkin
0.9375
3
585
Nagoriyuki (BL1)
0.9688
4
585
Goldlewis Dickinson
0.9609
3
570
Slayer
0.9688
3
566
A.B.A.
0.9531
2
559
Giovanna (100%)
0.92817
1
559
Johnny
0.9844
3
557
Anji Mito
1.0625
5
552
Leo Whitefang
1.0000
3
548
Sol Badguy
0.9844
2
541
Ky Kiske
1.0000
2
533
May
1.0625
4
533
Giovanna (50%)
1.9797
1
530
Bedman?
0.9609
0
527
Nagoriyuki (BL2)
1.0754
4
527
Baiken
1.1172
4
507
Sin Kiske
1.0547
2
505
Giovanna
1.0313
1
503
Faust
1.0156
0
499
Happy Chaos
1.0391
1
499
Testament
1.0469
1
496
I-No
1.0625
1
488
Ramlethal Valentine
1.0625
1
488
Elphelt Valentine
1.0938
2
487
Axl Low
1.0781
1
481
Bridget
1.0625
0
477
Jack-O'
1.1172
2
477
Zato=1
1.0781
0
470
Nagoriyuki (BL3)
1.2110
4
468
Millia Rage
1.1875
2
449
Chipp Zanuff
1.2656
4
447
Asuka R# (No Mana)
1.5000
0
338
Character
Defense Multiplier
Guts
Effective Health
+/-
Bedman? (call 13c)
0.7453
0
680
+94
Asuka R# (Mana)
0.7500
0
676
~0
Potemkin
0.8750
4
647
+62
Goldlewis Dickinson
0.8906
3
615
+45
Bedman?
0.8281
0
612
+85
Nagoriyuki (BL1)
0.9219
3
594
+9
A.B.A.
0.8984
2
593
+34
Johnny
0.9297
3
589
+32
Anji Mito
1.0000
5
586
+34
Giovanna (100%)
0.8860
1
586
+27
Leo Whitefang
0.9531
3
575
+27
Sol Badguy
0.9375
2
568
+27
May
1.0000
4
566
+33
Sin Kiske
0.9688
3
566
+61
Slayer
0.9219
1
563
-3
Ky Kiske
0.9531
2
559
+26
Giovanna (50%)
0.9352
1
555
+25
Baiken
1.0391
4
545
+38
Dizzy
1.0938
5
536
-
Nagoriyuki (BL2)
1.0233
3
536
+9
Giovanna
0.9844
1
527
+24
Testament
0.9844
1
519
+31
Faust
0.9688
0
523
+24
Ramlethal Valentine
1.0000
1
519
+31
Elphelt Valentine
1.0391
2
513
+26
I-No
1.0156
1
511
+23
Axl Low
1.0313
1
503
+22
Jack-O'
1.0625
2
501
+24
Happy Chaos
1.0156
0
499
~0
Zato=1
1.0156
0
499
+29
Bridget
1.0781
2
494
+17
Chipp Zanuff
1.1875
4
477
+30
Nagoriyuki (BL3)
1.1524
4
476
+8
Millia Rage
1.1406
2
467
+18
Asuka R# (No Mana)
1.5000
0
338
~0

As a sidenote, these changes actually ended up being pretty similar to my attempt to rebalance health back in September. It's not exact, and my method was different, but it is pretty cool how close I was. Some effective health values were even exactly the same!
- Characters -
Sol Badguy
*Note: I have not yet played against a Sol in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

So I haven't fought a Sol recently but on paper the changes seem... mixed. I completely understand why Sol players would be annoyed. At the same time, it made fighting him better!

This is essentially only due to the Night Raid Vortex changes. An incredibly annoying move that made it WAY too hard to zone Sol. It wasn't overpowered, just annoying.

Fafnir, however, is a different story. I REALLY like the direction of this, though I'm not really sure how it is balance-wise. It brings back the same concept as Sidewinder from XX. I do think that it would better as a new move rather than just replacing the old Fafnir, especially since Sol still doesn't have a new move yet. If they were dead set on having it use Fafnir's animation, it could have been S Fafnir or something.
Ky Kiske
Besides the infinite that got patched out, I don't hate the direction Ky was brought in. Making his combos more directly tied into Shock State makes it actually matter. I like that. I also like the Foudre Arc change because I despise that move, so making it a worse combo tool is great. Vapor Thrust is a cooler replacement anyway. I do think that Foudre Arc should have kept the comboability during Shock State though.
May
*Note: I have not yet played against a May in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

I've seen clips and the fact that they gave May EVEN MORE damage is insane. I really wish May wasn't top tier. She simply isn't a good fit for it. Please nerf her.
Axl Low
I really dislike the Rainwater change. It was a cool combo tool before and now, while it does still combo, it is just so much less unique. I know that it was changed to emphasize Axl being a zoner, but I feel like it was still better beforehand. As for the Sickle Flash input change, I'm not an Axl player so I can't comment, but it definitely makes it feel better for me.

Gameplay wise though, Axl feels about the same as a Bedman? player. Which is to say it sucks. It generally feels like whoever wins round start just wins the match due to how snowball-y it is. Axl can easily keep Bedman? out, but also can't escape Bedman?'s pressure if he is able to get in. But I guess that is just the nature of the characters.
Chipp Zanuff
I think the most unified the GGST playerbase has ever been is the consensus that Tightrope is a cool move, and probably the best new move added to the game conceptually. I will be completely honest and say that I have NO idea how it is balance-wise, as only a few Chipp Players actually used it.

So basically, he is still incredibly annoying and definitely even better but that is likely a matchup / skill issue.
Potemkin
Oh... where to even start...

Karas being removed is, put simply, an AWFUL decision that removes a lot of the cool things for Pot. Yeah, it was kind of replaced by the hammerfall break stuff, but it just isn't the same...

Now as for the rest of the changes? Disgusting. Potemkin has reached this point where h has such overwhelmingly powerful options that he has almost no weaknesses. He doesn't have "poor neutral" like most grapplers do; he can do pretty much anything. I guess you can technically say he has ""bad"" defense, but it really isn't a massive problem with how much health he has. But you know what the worst thing is? He simply isn't fun to fight on any level. He is in control at every point of the match and even on a massive life lead it still feels like you could lose at any moment.
Faust
Excellent changes all around! j.2K deserved to be nerfed, and the changes to items are really good. Expanding the batting mechanic with Hole In One is an excellent choice. The only issue I still have with him is Scarecrow PRC, which I still believe to be an awful design choice that simply shouldn't exist.
Millia Rage
fuck Kapel. Deserved nerf. I hate this character and will likely always hate her regardless of what they change. Any nerf is welcome. Please make her unplayable.
Zato=1
He isn't unplayable garbage. He never was. That said, he was definitely very weak. The Damned Fang change, while annoying, is a fair change that he probably needed. The Sun Void change probably wasn't necessary, but it is fair. I think the developers are scared to make Zato good in any way, and I understand them.
Ramlethal Valentine
*Note: I have not yet played against a Ram in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

I think the basic idea of Ram's remake was... admirable. Getting rid of her corner stuff isn't an awful idea. Though obviously it sucks for Ram players who have gotten used to the characters...

However they kind of messed up by making her obscenely good at pretty much everything. Whoops. I don't even think it is possible to pick just one thing they shouldn't have done. Almost EVERYTHING is super powerful.

They will surely fix this in the next update, right?
Leo Whitefang
HE CAN'T DASHBLOCK ANYMORE!!!!

...but now backturn is even better.

I don't know how to feel about the Leo changes. He isn't overpowered or anything but he definitely didn't need them... but anything is worth the dashblock I guess.
Nagoriyuki
*Note: I have not yet played against a Nagoriyuki in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

I REALLY dislike the idea here. Making his combos even more limited and just making his H normals do disgustingly high damage is an awful idea. It makes his gameplay worse to play as, fight against, and watch... there is no benefit to anyone. I think at this point going into Blood Rage is NOT a downside, its a sidegrade. Yeah, he loses most of his health, but his moves get so absurd that it can be worth it. A 16f, full-screen attack that is essentially safe while doing 156 damage on hit (and 35% that on block!) is absurd and just a terrible concept. And again, it just makes him less complex as a character. I can't understand what the idea here was.

On the bright side, they made Shizuriyuki worse which is nice. Now remind me why Kamuriyuki is still a low again?
Giovanna
Good changes all around! They removed her most annoying aspect, Enhanced Trovão, and gave her a bunch of interesting but not broken things. Great job. A+.
Anji Mito
The Charged Fuujin change is obviously a flashy change (as seen from reactions to the trailer), but honestly it hasn't meant much in my experience.

I think Anji would be so much more bearable if they just made Midare even or minus. Please.
I-No
*Note: I have not yet played against an I-No in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

Excellent changes all around! Antidepressant Scale having a "feint" kind of thing is good, but the obvious star is the Chemical Love change. It helps with her damage and adds depth to the move. The only downside to all of this is that Stroke got buffed which makes me sad because I hate it.
Goldlewis Dickinson
Do I need to say anything here? He was already so incredible and they essentially just gave him massive buffs with little to no actual nerfs. Behemoth cancels are ridiculous and do absurd damage, while the new Skyfish changes makes any attempt at zoning him out a nightmare.

I think Goldlewis has gotten such a sad fate because I love how his combos look. Bouncing the opponent around with all the Behemoths is really cool but they just do so much damage and it just makes him such a disgusting character. Not to mention how good behemoths are even when block. Please just nerf them.
Jack-O'
*Note: I have not yet played against a Jack-O' in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

Ok. Yes, 2D was nerfed. Yes, that took away some stuff. But she is still good regardless. She isn't unplayable. Stop pretending like she is bottom 5 now.

Should she have probably gotten something as compensation? Yes. But does she need the old 2D back? No.
Happy Chaos
Overall good changes. Scapegoat is better to deal with and reducing his health was really needed, though I do think they should have made up for it by making Scapegoat cost less health.

As always though, he needs just a bit more work. Personally I think Reload and maybe even Focus should have more recovery, but I'm not sure. Undoubtably though, they NEED to remove the chance for the reticle to just be auto locked on.
Baiken
I believe Baiken to have been the worst character in the game last patch, and they definitely fixed that! The best change is definitely Hiiragi; making it a guard cancel restores Baiken's main identity from previous games and makes her so much more interesting.

Now obviously Baiken's main issue before was her lack of combos outside of very specific hits... they fixed that. Too much. I think the combos she currently has are a bit too good for how she is supposed to be. Maybe. I'm not sure.
Testament
*Note: I have not yet played against a Testament in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

Nothing major but useful! It always felt weird that Testament's throw just... didn't interact with stain. So now it does!
Bridget
I like the changes to roll. It makes her unable to just block out of roll, but adds much more depth to it. Good changes.
Sin Kiske
*Note: I have not yet played against a Sin in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

Sin got a lot of changes and I think they are great on paper but... mediocre execution wise. Making him need to rely more on Stamina to succeed is a good. But unfortunately the new combos far outweigh anything he used to be able to do and the stamina change isn't big enough to make up for it. He just gets too much reward now. Tone that back, and he will be in a good spot.
Bedman?
Fantastic changes! They continue to know exactly what Bedman? needs. The only nerf he got, the worsening of guard crush loops, is perfectly fair and weakens his most annoying aspect.

His other changes are all really good, and I'm not sure which is the best. Bedman? got by far the greatest defense increase, which he really needed due to how large he was. It was really weird for him to have such low health when it was so much higher in Xrd. And now he does!

Making !H home is excellent and makes it way better. It was somewhat mediocre in neutral before. Now it can snipe opponents easily and fly through other projectiles easily. It also makes his oki better, as now distance barely matters. It also makes 13c WAY better, as now he can sound out fields of high damage guard crush from anywhere.

The CH 5H change is also really good. Bedman? got essentially now reward off of it before, and now it is probably his best combo starter on CH. Excellent change.

Honestly, I kind of think his damage should be nerfed a bit. He does a bit more then he probably should.
Asuka R#
*Note: I have not yet played against an Asuka in a proper match this season, but have watched other people's matches.

While he needed nerfs, I don't really think this was the correct way to do it...

The recover mana change and bit shift changes are probably the only nerfs I agree with. They are fine. The rest though are a of worse quality. The HCSP Sphere change takes away a lot of its benefits outside of wallstick. The Recover Mana (Instant) change makes the spell WAY less interesting and probably less useful. The RMS Boost change also just makes it way worse which doesn't really feel deserved.

The buffs are good but don't really feel like enough compensation. They don't really do a lot. The Bookmark (Full Order) change is interesting, but I think the changes to Mana depletion kind of negate the benefit there.
Johnny
I don't remember where they said it but didn't the developers say they specifically wanted Johnny to be top tier? I think that is pretty clear in how they treat him...

I know Mist Finer could cut projectiles back in Xrd, but he really didn't need it here. He really didn't need to lose another weakness. Also the fact that they DOUBLED Ensenga's damage is just... a really bizarre choice.

I know they didn't want to touch him due to his ""recent"" changes, but they really just need to change him. If they do truly want to design him as a top tier, they need to tone down his overly powerful thigns and make certian other things slightly better. I think it is theoretically possible to specifically design him as a top tier, this just isn't the way.
Elphelt Valentine
I actually really like the changes to Bomb-Bombnniere... in concept. In excecution? Way too good. It has pretty much no counterplay and results in her generally having the best super wallbreak in the game. They probably should have made it go away on hit.

The rest of them are... ok. Nailed It probably didn't need the hard knockdown. Honestly I wish they gave her even more in exchange for rekka nerfs. Just make her less... annoying.
A.B.A
Her changes are mostly fine but I don't agree with the Intertwine and Tilt change. Making it -2 was obviously a good choice, but I don't get why they made it have no reward on counter hit. Just an odd choice.
Slayer
...could they really not do just a tiny bit more to nerf him? Just a bit?

I like these changes. Killing his defense is a massive help. He really didn't need that much health and there was no reason for him to have a reversal. Making his backdash suck less is also a good choice.

They had the right idea that 2H needed to be nerfed but the problem wasn't really it being good on whiff, it was more everything else...

I do like the the 6[K] change though! it makes it much more useful and it was pretty useless before.
Dizzy
If Dizzy HAD to change going into strive, I think this was a good way to do it. Making her into a zoner with elements of Justice is pretty fitting. And I think they executed it quite well. I think she is a bit weak, but it isn't terrible.

However I also think that For Roasting Chestnuts is a pretty poorly designed move that needs a rework. Maybe if it only could be looped on the ice it would be fine since it would be limited, but since it has no pushback it can really be done anywhere.
Tier List
To end this section off, here is a comparison between my old tier list and one from the new patch (both are ordered):
S++
S+
S
A+
A
B+
S++
S+
S
A+
A
B+

- Team of Three -
Most people seem to have forgotten that Team of Three even released. My evidence? It takes over five minutes to get a single match. Very sad

I actually really like Team of Three. I use it as a warmup before playing actual matches, since it is way more casual and too chaotic to have many serious fights. The base gameplay and systems are all really fun and I like what they did with it.

That being said, there are some issues with it. While health isn't as bad as people say it is, there should be just a bit more. I think the issue is mainly just at the start of the match though; if both players survive through, matches usually last a pretty long time assuming there are enough healing skills. Another issue I have, though not as important, is that there needs to be a way to forcibly swap with the current leader. I have had multiple matches where the main player is... mediocre at best... and also refuses to swap out. I would get it if they were good, but often they are constantly losing or facing a really bad matchup. People just need to learn to swap out.
- Overall -
Overall I think I am a bit more positive than many others towards this update. It didn't ruin the game. Obviously. It is still a really good game. Is it in a very slightly worse state? Maybe. But with an update or two the game will be in a really good spot. I also believe the theory that Team of Three probably took a good bit of resources away from the main development. Now that it is done, they can likely work more on the main game's balance.